Friday, May 30, 2008

Why Feminism Is A Necessity

image I was going through my news readers when I came across a site  with a woman declaring her disbelief in feminism, via ifemenist.com. Yes I know, the world is unfair, and men by enlarged suffer from misandry.  I had written this page off as fringe, lunatic nonsense, and moved on when I came across a study that found that, 90% of adolescent girls experience sexual harassment. 90%..that is an astounding figure.  I kept flashing back in mind to this website, and realized I had to confront it.  Bear with me while we make our way through the muck of internalized hatred. The post in question is entitled, "Why Is This Woman Against Feminism."

"We got the vote in, what, 1920? That’s 88 years ago, nearly a century! So what is feminism trying to accomplish now???? I say the push is now for special privileges for women, not equal opportunities. I say further that the new strategy, and one that has worked very well for nearly a century, is to get those special privileges by making women look like victims of society in general, and men in particular. Not only that, but to make it really effective, they have to convince the women themselves that they really are victims."

There is more to equality than having the right to vote.  Women still make 70 cents for every dollar a man makes, and the disparity is even larger for women of color.  The vast majority of women that are single mothers live in poverty, but daily the right to have an abortion is continually being assaulted. Mothers that are married, and work outside of the home still perform most of the domestic duties, childrearing, and elder care.  This constitutes a "double day". Women bodies are constantly sexualized in the media.  I challenge you to watch fifteen minutes of television without seeing the image of a half naked woman, selling us something we neither want, or need.  Daily for a small fee one can have access to violent pornography thus reifying our rape culture. Or perhaps hip hop is your thing, I can imagine how you might find it pleasant to hear women referred to as bitches and hos continually. Maybe you are more mainstream, and you have found delight in the sexism that has been thrown at Hillary Clinton.  My goodness a woman president, we cannot have that, when she gets her period she might be tempted to push the button. Where oh where will we hide the tampon dispenser in the Oval office?  You see that office is the repository of male bodily fluids, and the cleaning staff are used to dealing with semen, and not blood.

Speaking of semen, are you feeling a little horny dear?  Any idea where your clitoris is?  Found it by accident didn't you, because female sexual pleasure just isn't taught in sex education classes.  No need to get upset though because women don't need to have an orgasm to walk around barefoot, and pregnant.  They just need to spread their legs when told, and feign pleasure at the mans will. This will also include perfecting the skill of fellatio while ignoring the fact that your man thinks that cunnilingus is some foreign country off the coast of Italy.  Throw the little man in the boat a life jacket, and buy a vibrator, it may be the only way you will ever have an orgasm. Since you clearly are so traditional, I won't even get into the fact that it isn't considered sex when lesbians are intimate.  I mean how can it be sex where there is no penis involved?

Society is continually disciplining the female form, unlike the perfect male Adonis body. Did you know you stink? Don't worry though there are douches for that, just don't think about what it is doing to your natural chemistry.  What is that... a hair on your leg? Didn't you know that women are supposed to all have hairless prepubescent bodies at all times, while men can go around looking like they belong in gorillas in the mist, with nary a batted eye. Are you feeling hungry sweetie?  Better watch what you eat, the diet industry is dependent on your desire to conform to the ideal female form to maintain profits.  Don't worry though Jenny Craig will love you, for every dollar of your meager disposable income that you spend trying to get into an unachievable size o.  Do you have any money left after purchasing your high sodium diet food?  Good stuff because what's left has to go to the plastic surgeon.  You know that a true woman cannot allow herself to age naturally. No that would mean that you didn't care about yourself.  Better get those boobs lifted, the stomach tucked, and those crows feet removed.  You cannot afford to look haggard next to your man, who even though he is five years older than you is becoming distinguished while you look dried up, and used.

Speaking of your senior years, you know that stress free retirement you were dreaming of?  Ditch that idea. You see, you took so much time out of the workforce to raise children, and take care of your elderly parents that it has effected your retirement benefits.  Should you have the misfortune to outlive your spouse, and loose his share of benefits you will become a regular at food banks, and soup kitchens.  Even with the discounts you will get for being a senior, economically life will be very hard for you. 

"So if you can’t lie, the only other alternative is to tell the truth. Ah, but it’s all in the way you tell it. Only include the juicy parts. Include the stories about men beating up, raping, even killing their wives. Leave out the part about how the vast majority of men wouldn’t dream of doing such a thing. Leave out the part about how the vast majority of men would like to see the perpetrators of such horror killed. Leave out the part about women beating up, raping, even killing their own children. It wouldn’t be politically expedient to mention those parts of the truth, so we’ll just leave those out.

And that is what I have against feminism. It’s a big fat lie. The reality, whether any readers who call themselves feminist want to believe it or not, is not some pie-in-the-sky “equality”. It’s the elevation of one sex, by the demonization of the other. Kind of like the Nazi party elevated the Aryan race, by the demonization of the Jews. It was wrong then, and it’s wrong now."

What was that you were saying about the vast majority of men?  According to the study I referenced at the beginning of this post, "Ninety percent of girls reported experiencing sexual harassment at least once. Specifically, 67 percent of girls reported receiving unwanted romantic attention, 62 percent were exposed to demeaning gender-related comments, 58 percent were teased because of their appearance, 52 percent received unwanted physical contact and 25 percent were bullied or threatened with harm by a male. 52 percent of girls also reported receiving discouraging gender-based comments on the math, science and computer abilities, usually from male peers, and 76 percent of girls reported sexist comments on their athletic abilities, again predominantly from male peers."  I know that this is only one study, however there are many in existence which document the exploitation, violence, and sexual assaults that women must deal with on a daily basis.  Get a library card, its free....it might open your eyes, because clearly you have internalized the nonsense that people like Limbaugh have sold to the world.

Finally feminism does not claim that all women are perfect.  Yes there are some feminist theories like radical feminism, and eco-feminism, that are essentialist but they do not speak for all of the various forms of feminism.  Feminist theory is fluid, and constantly changing to meet the diverse needs of women.  Simply stating the facts of the lived experience of women does not constitute the demonization of men.  Why should women deny the horrors of their daily lives so that men can have a feel good experience?  Why can't they just watch Oprah and Dr.Phil?  Finally your holocaust analogy is horrible for many reasons.  I will however state to you, that men have been slaughtering women since the beginning of time.  Now with the aid of technology we are killed before we can even take our first breath. It is called femicide.  Live in denial if rose colored glasses allows you to negotiate this world a little easier but please sell crazy somewhere else, the kool aid is not as tempting as you think. image

48 comments:

Octogalore said...

What more can be said? AWESOMENESS.

Sally said...

This is a great post and covers pretty much every angle, especially stressing that there is no one form of feminism.

I would also mention that in discussing the "truth," there's is a need for relevance. Sure, there are women (and men) hurting their children, but that in and of itself does not mean that feminism is irrelevant. One doesn't have much to do with the other. In fact, the argument could even be made that because of the abuse these women have probably had since birth, this is the only thing they know. Sad, but sometimes true.

mothership72 said...

Hi Renee,

As a single mom working in a man's profession, I have experienced much sexism. I was not as successful as the men and I worked harder, was just as strong, faster, more ethical, etc.,etc. I was told a few times that I could not have a raise, or my hours were being cut because they had to make sure the men could support their families. I was supporting mine, alone, with no child support or alimony. I am in agreement with you and I would like us as human beings to extend this advocacy toward children as well. They are also descriminated against, we just don't notice as much.
Thanks for what you are doing.

blackwomenblowthetrumpet.blogspot.com said...

Hi Renee,

Thank you for this post!

I am not a feminist and I am not a womanist. Often, when I say that, someone asks, 'why not?' as if those labels are so vitally essential to one's personhood that an explanation is warranted for NOT adopting one of the two labels.

I am not anti-feminist or anti-womanist...which another assumption that is made if a person doesn't use those labels.

You made a poignant observation at the beginning of this post...the muck of internalized hatred...so many levels to advance through to shake off the mental chains of sexism.

Continue to write more about this!

Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa

Renee said...

I think the fact that some women collude with men to oppress other women, is something that is very overlooked. Internalizing sexism, racism, abelism etc is not only damaging to the individual, it is damaging to society at large.

KellyMac said...

Renee, thank you for your post. Here is my reply: http://km.adamsspace.com/2008/06/08/nope-still-against-feminism/

lujlp said...

Were any of those same questions ever posed to guys, and what were the results?

>>Ninety percent of girls reported experiencing sexual harassment at least once.
First, how are we defining sexual harasment? Cause if you use the standdard feminist definition then I’ve been sexualy harrased by my grandma

>>Specifically, 67 percent of girls reported receiving unwanted romantic attention,
Ever see Fatal Attraction? Again who many guys were asked the questions that this statistic is derived from?

>>62 percent were exposed to demeaning gender-related comments,
Ever hear women talk about exboyfriends?

>>58 percent were teased because of their appearance,
And guys arent?

>>52 percent received unwanted physical contact and 25 percent were bullied or threatened with harm by a male.
Damn near every guy in my high school was slapped punched or kicked by their girldfriends - And this was in a community that was 90% mormon

>>52 percent of girls also reported receiving discouraging gender-based comments on the math, science and computer abilities, usually from male peers, and 76 percent of girls reported sexist comments on their athletic abilities, again predominantly from male peers.
Ever hear how men bash each other?

This last statistic encapulates feminisim at its core -
If you treat a woman better than a man your harassing her by being patronising,
If you treat a woman the way you treat a man your harassing her by(in her mind) being overly harsh,
If you refuse to play the zero sum lose lose mind game then your a mysoginist and harassing her by mearly existing in the same space/time

I’d like to see the questionaire that produced these idiodic figures.

A few things. What questions were asked?

How was unwanted physical contact defined?

Did you notice that the sexual harassment, unwanted romantic advances and unwanted physical contact made no specific mention that such actions were preformed "predominatly by male peers" as other stats did?

In fact only the last two stats specifically mention males as the primary sorce of such behavior - why do you suppose that is?

lujlp said...

I looked at the link the abstract only listed 3 stats your blog item listed 8.

Did you pay for the whole artices text and if so were the questions posed to the study group listed

julie said...

I am an anti feminist not because I think men or women should be unequal but I am anti communism.

Feminism has moved in waves. The vote is so long ago and just so you know, women got the vote 3 years after men In New Zealand.

The cold war was a fight for democracy which the west supposedably won. However, from that year the Gay movement made their platform, the second wave of feminists made theirs and so did the anti religious.

Communism is all you speak in this.

Women don't get the same pay as men? Bollocks. Women get cent for cent on every job they do equal to a man. Do you not remember the feminist marches of 1970s?

What you are asking for is same outcome. What you are asking for is that everyone work for a communist government and every person shall get the same amount of money regardless of what they do.

The sexual research you speak of is carefully manipulated because we need the money and divide to continue pushing communism. The questions asked for the research are absurd. Males would be coming out at 90% also if they were asked the same questions.

Have you ever thought a man was looking at you? I am surprised 10% said no. hehehe

Renee said...

The reaction to the post was a little stronger than I anticipated. There have been individual queries that need a larger response than a comment box will allow, to that end keep posting your comments and I will post a reflection response on the next couple of days that will address the issues you have all raised with this post.

paddybrown said...

I posted a response on KellyMac's blog based on what she reported of your response, and I thought It would be only fair to read the whole thing and comment here.

My major problem with feminism is its selection bias. It looks for examples of bad things that happen to women, particularly those that happen systematically, and when it finds them it thinks "job done" and stops looking. It doesn't find those bad things, systematic or otherwise that happen to men, not because they're not there, but because it's not looking for them. As a result it comes up with a picture that's unbalanced to the point of being misleading.

> Mothers that are married, and work outside of the home still
> perform most of the domestic duties, childrearing, and elder
> care. This constitutes a "double day".

No it doesn't. Women work more hours in the home, men work more hours outside the home. It evens itself out. And for every man who takes his wife's work in the home for granted, there's a woman who cheerfully spends the money her husband earns while giving him grief for never "being there".

> Women bodies are constantly sexualized in the media.

The human body is sexual. Both men and women use the sexual nature of their bodies to their advantage or for their own pleasure and that of their partners all the time. The impossibly perfect bodies of celebrities and models are both male and female - very few men can hope to have the body of David Beckham, and his half-naked image is all over the media. If you're complaining about men getting sexual pleasure from contemplating the female body, well, that's just spite.

>Daily for a small fee one can have access to violent pornography
>thus reifying our rape culture.

There is no "rape culture" - that's paranoid fantasy. Even in jail, among the lowest of the low, rapists are despised. The fiction that women read is as sexually explicit as the pornography men consume, presents equally unattainable images of the opposite sex, and is far more reliant on the rape fantasy. Pornography for men mostly relies on the fantasy of an unconditionally willing woman.

> Maybe you are more mainstream, and you have found delight in the
> sexism that has been thrown at Hillary Clinton.

The sexism that Clinton has faced is nothing compared to the sexism she has taken advantage of - from her tears winning her votes in New Hampshire, to insisting she stayed in the race even after it was clear she couldn't win, because how dare you tell me I can't play because I'm a girl, to her feminist supporters who vote for her just because she's female. The most sexist thing I can think of associated with Hillary Clinton is her own statement that women are the "primary victims of war" because they lose their fathers and husbands and sons - implying that a bereaved woman is a greater tragedy than a dead man.

> Speaking of semen, are you feeling a little horny dear? Any dea
> where your clitoris is? Found it by accident didn't you, because
> female sexual pleasure just isn't taught in sex education > classes.

Neither is male sexual pleasure. Sex education classes teach us about babies and STDs. We all learn how to masturbate on our own.

In fact, male sexual pleasure is taken entirely for granted in our culture. Men are judged as lovers on how well we can bring our partner to orgasm. Women think male sexual pleasure takes care of itself, when they think of it at all.

> Throw the little man in the boat a life jacket, and buy a
> vibrator, it may be the only way you will ever have an orgasm.

This appears to be sexual shaming language aimed at KellyMac, which is nothing more than ad hominem abuse. Don't do that, it's not nice. You're perfectly capable of making an argument.

> Society is continually disciplining the female form, unlike the
> perfect male Adonis body.

Eh? Do you think we all have perfect bodies? Or do you simply edit those of us who don't out of your worldview and imagine we don't exist?

> Didn't you know that women are supposed to all have hairless
> prepubescent bodies at all times, while men can go around looking > like they belong in gorillas in the mist, with nary a batted eye.

I'm a man with very little body hair, and I know from experience few women find that attractive. I've got too little, you've got too much. Life's not fair, but it's not only unfair against you.

When you think about it, if you have too much hair, you can confirm to the norm by removing it. If I've got too little, there's nothing I can do to conform to the norm. Also, all the areas women are expected to shave can be covered with clothes, so if you can't be bothered nobody will know. I have to shave the most public part of my body every day to be regarded as trustworthy and employable.

> Speaking of your senior years, you know that stress free
> retirement you were dreaming of? Ditch that idea. You see, you
> took so much time out of the workforce to raise children, and
> take care of your elderly parents that it has effected your
> retirement benefits.

I don't know what it's like where you live, but where I come from (the UK) women retire five years earlier than men and can take time
off during their working life, and still get the same pension benefits as their husbands. Then, when their husbands die before them - men on average die younger than women, and women on average marry older men, so that happens in most mariages - their widows are entitled to their pension too. I don't believe it's very different in Canada.

> According to the study I referenced at the beginning of this
> post, "Ninety percent of girls reported experiencing sexual
> harassment at least once. Specifically, 67 percent of girls
> reported receiving unwanted romantic attention,

So "would you like to go out with me?" "no thanks?" now counts as sexual harassment? Try being the sex that has to do the asking rather than the one that gives ambiguous "signals". We have no way of knowing for sure whether our romantic attention is unwanted until we ask you, by which stage we've given you unwanted romantic attention! Try being strung along by someone who's not really interested in you but knows she can get a few free nights out with a few plausibly-deniable "signals", or facing the withering contempt of someone who thinks she's too good for you but would never dream of putting herself out on a limb the way we have to. Then you'll know what it's like to have your self-esteem sexually battered.

> 62 percent were
> exposed to demeaning gender-related comments, 58 percent were
> teased because of their appearance, 52 percent received unwanted
> physical contact and 25 percent were bullied or threatened with
> harm by a male. 52 percent of girls also reported receiving
> discouraging gender-based comments on the math, science and
> computer abilities, usually from male peers, and 76 percent of
> girls reported sexist comments on their athletic abilities, again
> predominantly from male peers."

As a man, I can say "yes" to every one of those questions with the sexes reversed. Confirmation bias. The survey only asks women, and concludes only women suffer.

> Feminist theory is fluid, and constantly changing to meet the
> diverse needs of women.

This is simply a setting up perpetually moving goalposts.

> I will however state to you, that men have been slaughtering
> women since the beginning of time.

Like "rape culture", this is paranoid fantasy. 90 million people died in two world wars in the 20th century, and despite that the world’s population continued to rise. One million people died in the Irish potato famine in the middle of the 19th century, and Ireland’s population still hasn’t recovered. Know why? Because in the two world wars, the dead were overwhelmingly male, and in the Irish famine, women died too. A population that loses most of its men but retains its women can regenerate easily. If it loses a significant number of women, it can’t. If men slaughtered women the human species would be extinct.

This is why, when there’s slaughter going on, it’s men, not women, who are slaughtered. Read any history. In 1995 in Bosnia the UN evacuated women from Srebrenica, and left non-combatant men and boys to be massacred. Today in Iraq, the overwhelming majority of the civilian casualties are male.

> Now with the aid of technology we are killed before we can even
> take our first breath. It is called femicide.

So abortion's only good when it kills boys?

> Live in denial if rose colored glasses allows you to negotiate
> this world a little easier but please sell crazy somewhere else,
> the kool aid is not as tempting as you think.

More abuse. Get off your high horse, look at the world through both eyes, and realise that while your sex is hard done by in many ways, it's not uniquely hard done by. We'd beat more injustice working together.

Renee said...

reply@ Julie actually I didn't say anything remotely communist, perhaps the breakdown is in your understanding of communism. I am well versed in Marxist feminism but that is not the approach I took when I wrote this post.

Marxist feminism finds the root of oppression of women based solely in economics. A Marxist feminist would not have delved into things like body image or sexuality. I was definitely working a theoretical perspective, you just happened to pick the wrong one.

Renee said...

Reply @ paddybrown

"My major problem with feminism is its selection bias."

A good place to start is to identify what kind of feminist theory you are critiquing. Not all of them stand for the same thing. "It makes your response jumbled otherwise.

"It looks for examples of bad things that happen to women, particularly those that happen systematically, and when it finds them it thinks "job done" and stops looking. It doesn't find those bad things, systematic or otherwise that happen to men, not because they're not there, but because it's not looking for them. As a result it comes up with a picture that's
unbalanced to the point of being misleading."

Again what theory...if you are directing this towards eco-feminism or radical feminism you have a point. If you are directing this at post-colonial, anti-racist, or socialist you have no point...Do you get what I am saying about picking a theory?

"No it doesn't. Women work more hours in the home, men work more hours outside the home. It evens itself out. And for every man who takes his wife's work in the home for granted, there's a woman who cheerfully spends the money her husband earns while giving him grief for never"

TO this I provided three statiscal charts from stats can in my post entitled colluding women. Please see there.

"The impossibly perfect bodies of celebrities and models are both male and female - very few men can hope to have the body of David Beckham, and his half-naked image is all over the media"

Are both male and female bodies to some degree sexualized...yes, the question is which sex is the most commodified image and clearly women win that race.

"Pornography for men mostly relies on the fantasy of an unconditionally willing woman."

Yes and that would be rape...

"I don't know what it's like where you live, but where I come from (the UK) women retire five years earlier than men and can take time
off during their working life, and still get the same pension benefits as their husbands. Then, when their husbands die before them - men on average die younger than women, and women on average marry older men, so that happens in most mariages - their widows are entitled to their pension too. I don't believe it's very different in Canada."

Your retirement benefits are based on how much you pay in old age pensions throughout your working career...they less you pay, the less you make when you retire.

"This appears to be sexual shaming language aimed at KellyMac, which is nothing more than ad hominem abuse. Don't do that, it's not nice. You're perfectly capable of making an argument."

It's called sarcasm and you are equally guilty of it in your response to me...furthermore on my blog I will use whatever language I see fit. Don't try and silence me, your male privilege holds no weight here at womanist musings.

"The sexism that Clinton has faced is nothing compared to the sexism she has taken advantage of"

One does not take advantage of sexism in the manner in which you are referring to it. Again stating for the record not an HRC fan, she's just an example.

"I'm a man with very little body hair, and I know from experience few women find that attractive. I've got too little, you've got too much. Life's not fair, but it's not only unfair against you."

Here we go with assumptions..this is not about me personally, it is a reflection on western culture.

"This is simply a setting up perpetually moving goalposts."

No actually this is the way most social theory operates...you would find this in any poli sci,chys, soci or wise 1st year university class. Most "soft" sciences operate with a degree of fluidity. This is not unique to feminist theory. Where do you think the term political spectrum comes from?
Consider that there are many stops on the left/right continuum.

YOur commentary on men killing women does not deserve a response. It is an obvious fact that is only debatable to man that detests women.

"So abortion's only good when it kills boys?"

Wild hysterical accusation..Abortion is only acceptable when gender of the child is not a determinant...little paranoid there?

"We'd beat more injustice working together."

I am interested in male allies, however they must own their male privileges to be worthy of that term...you don't even believe a gender disparity exists...so I think I will sit happily on my horse in your presence.

julie said...

Renee, thanx for your reply about the marxist feminists.

You speak about many different types of feminists. But what you fail to understand is that it doesn't matter whether you are wearing red or green or white or blue glass slippers.

When feminists push for something political, politicians don't look to see what color glass slippers they are wearing but count all women who wearing glass slippers.

Renee said...

reply@ Julie
That's just the point...so far the fissures in feminism have remained very much within the feminist community. Many people are largely unaware about the different kinds of feminism.
Do to the recent election some people are just finding out about the third/second wave distinction but it is so much more varied than that. This is why when someone says they are against feminism I always ask what kind of feminism. We cannot raise awareness without talking openly about what plagues feminism at large. Just because some women speak the loudest right now does not mean that they represent me, or all women for that matter. This is why you will find that increasingly feminists that identify with a specific theory are beginning to speak out against the hegemony of second wave/radical feminists. THey are fighting back but we are determined to say that you don't own this movement. I am a womanist and my goal for this blog is to raise awareness of womanist issues, hence you will notice a high concentration of race issues posted here. This is no accident. I encourage everyone to think about the different forms of feminism before they claim to hate it all because they are very, very different.

julie said...

@Renee,
there is definitely something about you that is worthwhile. You are looking at things critically and wanting to be proactive.

It is always hard to knock someone with those qualities.

I wish this was as simple as some of us females challenging other females. But I fear this is out of our control.

You are in Canada with 2 boys and I am in NZ with 2 boys. And what is funny is that both our countries are closely connected in this.

I have been told that we need to balance back what the last generation did but this isn't just about women. 2nd wave feminism became much more.

This is something I wrote recently on a site.

http://tinyurl.com/6xabbu

I hope you find time to check it out. And the links too.

If you are going to challenge for change, I would like to keep up with you if that is alright.

I know that one of the challenges coming is for same income. Over here they are teaching that men's professions get more such as accounting and women's get less such as childcare (nanny).

When I was asked who did the most important job between the 2 ... I stated that the reason a nanny gets less than an accountant is that an accountant has to pay the nanny and still support themselves and their family. But that is irrelevant to where we are going with this.

BTW, do you have 24 hour childcare and is it compulsory to put your children in care after age 1?

Renee said...

@Julie
Thanks,
As I said, I am committed to speaking about different forms of feminism. Enough of the squeaky wheels. I don't imagine that it is going to make me many friends but people are often resistant to hearing the truth spoken.

julie said...

I have not yet looked through your site, but ... I have a feeling you are trying to push in humanism.

You really don't see where you are going. You really don't see the different types are in fact one type.

I will write a post for you. And then bring you the link.

Renee said...

reply@ Julie

You are supposed to get the feeling that I believe in humanism because as well as being a womanist I am a devoted humanist. My critique at this moment center around race, class and gender however all of the other stigmatizing isms are very problematic as well. I intend to address them as I come across them.
I am fully aware of what I stand for and exactly what that implies. I understand that you may be in disagreement with my position, however be aware that I do not take this stance, from a position of ignorance.

julie said...

Renee, I am interested in your knowledge.

What I want to know is; Are you interested in mine?

Can we figure this together as a team with others or do you think you know it all? (dictator)

I do not think I know it all. And there is decades of information to decipher.

Renee said...

@julie, I am interested in whatever you have to say. I openly admit to not having the answers. I am a woman searching just like many others.

Peter said...

I have never read so much crap in my life. Have you read her reply? As expected, she replies with the WHOLE truths that you never want heard. Its not the koolaid you have an issue with, its when its not your koolaid that you have a problem.

Your sexism is sickening!

Anonymous said...

I don't even know where to begin in pointing out the errors in this mis-informed polemic. Looks like others have already done that though :)

Have you considered checking the facts you quote or re-thinking the colourful and defamitory nature of some of your phrasing?

Renee said...

anonymous have you considered fucking the hell off

Vitaliy S said...

Anonymous said... (using literary language)

I don't even know where to begin in pointing out the errors in this mis-informed polemic. Looks like others have already done that though :)

Have you considered checking the facts you quote or re-thinking the colourful and defamitory nature of some of your phrasing?
-----------

To this Renee (supposedly conducting an intellectual discourse) replied:

anonymous have you considered fucking the hell off
-----

Go Renee! What a lady! A real aristocrat!
;)

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