Saturday, July 5, 2008

Joe Horn, Murderer

image On November 17, 2007 Joe Horn did the unforgivable, he killed two men.  The grand jury recently refused to indict Joe for murder, and now he is being celebrated as a hero.  Good ole gun toting Joe came to the defence of his neighbours property, and in the process two men lost their lives.  Even though he was clearly told by the 911 dispatcher to remain in his home, and that the police were on the way, he simply could not stand idly by and allow these men to leave with possessions that did not even belong to him. There was no threat upon him, or his property. 

This is the result of the "castle doctrine" law in Texas, wherein people may use deadly force to protect their own property or to stop arson, burglary, robbery, theft or criminal mischief at night.  Why does Texas even have 911, if citizens can just kill someone who is leaving their property, and has not caused them any personal harm? That is right, the men were leaving. 

In all of the media reports that I have read about this story, the reporters make sure to mention that these men were illegal immigrants from Columbia, as if this fact somehow detracts from their humanity. They weren't "regular" Americans, so why not shoot them, they didn't belong here in the first place. Joe did the right thing because these were men of colour, and we all know what a threat they can be to God fearing white people. What was Joe supposed to do, just let them leave with his neighbours property?  He could not sit safely in his home with his gun, Noooo he made a bet with the 911 operator that he was going to kill them. image image And so so with malice and forethought, good ole Joe pulled the trigger three times, and two men are now dead. No matter what they were doing at the time of their deaths, it is important to acknowledge that these were indeed men, who but perhaps for an accident of birth could have been "regular" Americans akin to good ole Joe. There really is nothing that separates them from us, except our refusal to acknowledge their humanity.

How is it that on this planet that we all share, the ridiculous notion of an illegal human being can be used as justification for murder?  Borders are a social construct which exist, specifically to perpetuate the idea of difference.  They are not like us, and so it is perfectly fair to create unfair trading practices that allow us to impoverish them, while we live in relative luxury. When they try to escape the poverty that Western governments have subjected their populace to, we criminalize them and create them as less than, rather than acknowledging our complicity in their impoverishment.   They have no right to want  what we have, after all we have rightfully stolen it from them, and we have no intention of giving it back.

The answer to reducing property crime is certainly not to correct a system that is so imbalanced that many labour for $1 per day.  It would certainly not help the world to redistribute assets fairly, acknowledging that those that have accumulated the most have done so upon the backs of the worlds most vulnerable citizens.  Damn it, arm yourself the "illegals" are coming.  We cannot let them get away with stealing our debt laden purchases from labour exploiting Walmart.  It is our obligation to make sure that these "illegals" remember who the massa is in the first place.  If some of them end up dead along the way, there is no need to worry because they breed like rabbits anyway.

I know that Texas believes that there is the United States, and then there is Texas, however wilfully granting citizens the right to kill over meaningless property is wrong.  I am sure that the gun manufacturers are thanking you for passing laws that will increase their profit margin, but believe it or not people are worth more than things.  We will never know what these two men could have contributed to the world had they not had the misfortune to born dark, and poor on the wrong side of the border.


cooper said...

Unfriggin believable. He shot them in the back as they were leaving the house and gets away with it.

julie said...

So many posts you bring up Renee that I struggle with. But I like to think, so thanx.

This again is tough for me.

In NZ our police force is only starting to carry weapons and have only recently received tax paid bullet proof vests.

There has been a couple of shootings in self defence but they are not allowed. They are murder trials.

One was a young boy who was working in his fathers store that sold guns. A man came in with a gun and the son's owner shot him but didn't kill him.

We have also had men and sons in alcohol shops and local stores shot and stabbed, with a few deaths and critical care.

An old lady had her bag stolen and was then run over by a car.

Heterosexual couples at parks or even walking down the street are being bashed almost to death by club type weapons. These are from our young teen guy and girl gangs.


The police can't do anything even if they wanted to. They are under the laws of PC and are too busy dealing with DV and rape calls.

The people are taking the law into their own hands.

The Government has promised to bring in police from overseas but it can't stop what has been created. It is too late.

julie said...

BTW, I would like to add that I am not upset about Domestic Violence and rape getting attention. Not at all.

I am just upset at how much. I am upset that we are being ideologically driven to only care for one way of fixing the problems feminism has created.

julie said...
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Renee said...

Why does everything come down to blaming feminism for you Julie?

cheerful iconoclast said...

These people broke into a person's house and stole their property -- and they chose to do it in Texas, a state that is pretty lenient about armed defense of self and property. You seem to be suggesting these two criminals were not at all culpable, when in fact they could have prevented their own murder by the simple expedient of not breaking into another person's house.

At the end of the day, I 'm not sure that allowing people to shoot burglars leaving the scene is the best policy, and if Texas law did not allow it, I'd be fine with prosecuting Mr. Horn. But the fact remains that these two men share at least some responsibility for their own death.

Renee said...

Nothing and I repeat nothing justifies the taking of a human life.

julie said...


Why does everything come down to blaming feminism for you Julie?

Thanx for asking me Renee.

I think much of it is because this is a feminist site so I am relating it all to feminism.

I can tone that down.

Texas Truth said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Texas Truth said...

These two pieces of trash got EXACTLY what they deserved. Being from Texas, I am glad we have the Castle Doctrine. It is stated on these comments that there is no reason to take a life. I say YES THERE IS! If someone tries to steal the belongings I have worked very hard for or tries to steal my neighbor’s belongings, I am glad I have the LEGAL RIGHT to protect myself, my property, my family and my neighbor and his.

You state that Joe Horn is a murderer. The grand jury in Houston saw no reason to charge Mr. Horn. His actions were totally within the law. A police officer who arrived on the scene also stated that Mr. Horn was well within in legal rights to do what he did.

If more criminals had a good, healthy fear that they may get blown away if THEY CHOOSE to commit crimes, we would have a good deal less crime.

Again, Mr. Horn is not a murderer in the state of Texas. He may have been charged with a crime in another state or country, but do you think 12 jurors would agree he was guilty? It would never happen.

These people were habitual criminals. One had done time for drug distribution and child molestation.

We, the good citizens of Texas, are glad they are off the streets. We now have two less criminals to deal with in the Lone Star State!!!

Renee said...

@Julie what I mean is you have never made an argument as to why you see feminism as the issue on the stories that I post.

Renee said...

@Texas Truth....Joe Horn is a murderer. He shot TWO MEN IN THE BACK, who were no threat to him, with malice and forethought. They were leaving, and for the record the property they were taking was his neighbors not him. No property is worth a human life, but then coming from Texas I don't expect you to understand the value of life.

julie said...


Julie what I mean is you have never made an argument as to why you see feminism as the issue on the stories that I post.

I get you.

Texas Truth said...

Renee: You had better get your facts straight. Mr. Horn walked out his front door and suddenly found that the two criminals were right there in his front yard. They were around 10-15 feet away from him and Mr. Horn was the only witness to their felony.

When they are that close, reaction time become a huge issue. They could have jumped him in a split second and he might not have reacted quickly enough to prevent it. He is lucky to be alive.

He told them not to move. He told them if they moved, he they would die. According to the police officer that witnessed the shooting, the two men bolted. One of them made a run directly at Mr. Horn but veered off just as the first shot was fired.

As far as being from Texas and not knowing the value of life...get off your high horse. In Texas..We value life..however, BY OUR LAWS, if a person commits a criminal act, a person my use deadly force to stop, detain, or kill them. THAT IS OUR LAW!!! If you do not like it, then move down here and campaign to have the law changed. In closing, I instruct you to get your facts straight before you post on something you know very little of. You DO have the right to post your opinion, but you DO NOT the right to post falsehoods!!!

Renee said...

[email protected] Texas Truth
Mr. Horn walked out his front door and suddenly found that the two criminals were right there in his front yard.
Exactly the point, when he walked out his front door meaning that he was in no immediate danger in his home where he was obviously armed and notified that police were on their way.

He told them not to move. He told them if they moved, he they would die. According to the police officer that witnessed the shooting, the two men bolted. One of them made a run directly at Mr. Horn but veered off just as the first shot was fired.

Again this situation would not have occurred in the first place had he stayed in his home as he was instructed to do.

Texas..We value life.

Any state that has laws like the castle law, and death penalty cannot be considered a state that value life. Look around the world at the countries that share the same type of laws, you really are in some good company

If you do not like it, then move down here and campaign to have the law changed.

I think I will stay in Canada where neither the state or the individual has the right to take a life..that to me is the marker of civilization...but you keep toting your rifles and shotguns.

You DO have the right to post your opinion, but you DO NOT the right to post falsehoods!!!

No falsehoods were printed, you simply did not like my take on what happened...Also on my blog I will say what ever I chose. I will not be bullied by you or anyone else. Express your opinion, I am fine with that but don't ever think that you have the right to tell me what I can and cannot say.

Texas Truth said...

Renee: Yadda...Yadda...Yadda...You spout the same old liberal, tree-hugging speak that is becoming the norm for the whackos of the world. In fact, you did print falsehoods in your post and Yes, you have the right to post what you like, and WE have the right to call you out on it.

As far as you staying in Canada...PLEASE DO!!! and keep your OPINIONS (yes, opinions) about the way we do things in Texas in Canada. I for one and glad you wish to remain in Canada. That way, we have fewer whackos to deal with. As far as the death penalty, IT DOES WORK. As far as Mr. Horn..HE ACTED WITHIN THE LAW..OUR LAW. So, learn the facts before you expound. It is amazing that people like you can throw it out but cannot take it when it is hurled back at you.

In any case....keep expounding your opinion. It gives the good honest, people of the world ammo to keep posting and getting a good chuckle at your opinions.

One more think...LOSE THE HATE! I am sure it would make you and your family’s life a good bit nicer.

Renee said...

@Texas...of course you can't handle truth and the only way to combat it, is to construct it as hate. I notice that you fail to address that the fact that your supposedly life valuing state has the death penalty. If you want to talk facts....Right now the only thing you rank high on is the bullshit meter. One other thought...any further reference to my family in any form will end with an immediate ban...Stick to the issue or don't bother at all.

Texas Truth said...

Renee: I appreciate your naivety on the death penalty. Please forgive those of us who have. I, among many others, am proud and thankful of the fact that certain criminals forfeit their lives for their actions.

Everything in life comes down to choices. One chooses to be a criminal or not. One also chooses to be a victim or not. It seems that these two "criminal aliens" valued their lives a bit less than Mr. Horn did. If they had any idea they were going to die that day, do you think they would have committed the act? I THINK NOT...NO...I KNOW THEY WOULD NOT HAVE!!!

In addition, one of the "criminal aliens" had a previous conviction for child molestation. Any person who has had to go through that with a family member will agree that the death probably was not enough for him.

As far as me recording on a "bullshit meter" (your words), learn the facts. I imagine that you have not read all the facts that were made public in the Texas/Houston media and the grand jury testimony. As far as being from Texas...I am proud to be from a state that does not put up with such nonsense. If you can't do the time (or the consequences), don't do the crime.

The fact is that we in Texas do think that our laws are fair and just. Your country does things by your laws. Personally, I would not want to live in a country that does not have the death penalty. If criminals fear for their lives, there would be less crime.

So have a good life in Canada, and when someone breaks into your house and robs you of everything you have, they can get away and commit the act again and you can start to rebuild your life. In Texas, we do not put up with that nonsense. THAT IS OUR LAW!!!!

Enjoy the reading. I am sure you will have a quite concise rebuttal to which none of it will make any sense to the good citizens of the Lone Star State.

But you are entitled to your opinion, as I am mine. As far as banning me, that is your right also, as this is your blog. But that action would only serve to show that if you can “kill me off” of your blog, then you could certainly pick up a gun to defend you and yours. If you want to ban someone for their words, that in my mind, constitutes a death penalty. Isn’t banning someone from your blog, the internet’s equivalent of the death penalty? As far as the hate issue, you are one who stated hurling obscenities, not me…and if that is not hate, than what is?

Anonymous said... stupid is as stupid does I suppose. THe death penalty has no effect as a deterrent on crime. States that have the death penalty either have the same or higher amounts of crime, so what is the purpose of it? As for the men that were killed regardless of what they were guilty of death was not the answer. What they did that child is horrible but the child is still alive. No one, including the state should have the right to take a life.
Not all people choose as you say to become criminals. Does it even occur to you that the imbalance in the system of trade causes some to turn to this life that would have otherwise not have have. We create criminals, we need to be responsible for them. Furthermore prisons are not about rehabilitation to they are about punishment is it any wonder the recidivism rate is as high as it is. When these criminals are then releases we ostracize them from society and never give them a chance to integrate. Look I don't have all the answers but it is clear the penal model as it currently stands is not working. Just look at the high level of incarceration throughout your county.
As for banning your idiocy...continue to speak your trash, rationale people will see it for what it is. I said that any mention of my family will result in a ban. They are not for the conversation of others.

rengeko said...

I don't even have the words-it is one thing to kill in self-defence, but that is not what we're talking about here. I would kill to save myself, my child....probably I would to save anyone. But in a situation where there is no apparent threat? No, I think not. Texas has the oddest laws surrounding guns. I have, in fact just been thinking, since I am likely moving to a less-safe neighborhood, of what I would do if someone came in my house. My conclusion is that I would probably have a gun-and invite said intruders to leave. And be done with it. I would never shoot someone in the back that was leaving! I can't even imagine doing that. There is no rationale that I could come up with that would permit that.

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