Comments on Womanist Musings: Sunday Shame: My Feminism Stops Here

@Jemima Aslana, Thanx for you view. @New friend, T...

2008-11-18T01:11:36.721-05:00

@Jemima Aslana, Thanx for you view.

@New friend, Thanx for your comment.

I don't have anything to say back. I am pleased to listen also.

Okay, I have to add a little to my previous post:S...

2008-11-17T23:09:26.593-05:00

Okay, I have to add a little to my previous post:

Since I've started college I haven't really been able to play up the whole "I'm a girl!" thing like I could at home with daddy; where I live we're kinda all girls (except for the boys floor). Well, on my way to do laundry I was carrying by big ol' laundry basket & my heavy detergent AND my laptop (which somehow added like 20 lbs, I dunno) and on the way from my 4th floor room to the laundry room in the basement I refused the help of not one but TWO guys! I usually do this so when I get to the laundry room I'm all "Yaaay *crik*"

Okay, I'm done.

@julieThis blog post was supposed to be funny (sor...

2008-11-17T19:01:25.137-05:00

@julie

This blog post was supposed to be funny (sorry Renee - you tried). But if you go to Glenn's site you will see I am probably far from what you see on this one post. I probably despise Sacks and his cult following more than Renee does. My beef is not so much with Sacks because sometimes (like 1 out of 500 posts) he might make a little bit of sense. It is his cult following that I have issues with. They should all be shipped to Siberia or somewhere equally isolated with all the woman colluders who believe in them so they can reproduce alone and be happy with their women slaves.

Sorry Renee. This julie must not read you or Sacks very often - I can't stand that man - he is worse than the scum on the slime that is flushed down the toilet. They argue for the sake of arguing, they think nobody is allowed any opinions and in my case, when I shared some generalities about my story of violence they called me a liar (and that was the nicest thing they said). Glenn finally banned me from his site and when I use an anonimiser to post he will read my posts to approve and then deny them. I know - I have screen shots I have saved from posting (proof).

Most all MRAs are slime and worse. Don't believe me - go to www.christianparty.net and read the Father's manifesto. They want women to stay home and be good little wifeys and not have the right to vote or any rights to our bodies or basically any rights at all.

Julie, not all of us play the girl card, which you...

2008-11-17T15:09:33.523-05:00

Julie, not all of us play the girl card, which you'd know if you'd read the comments at all. Some do, yes, but not all, so don't say that we all deep down don't want equality - jut the neat parts.

I do want equality - all of it. But being equal doesn't mean you can't have preferences in chores, and it doesn't mean you can't have a lazy gene - I know I have.

My boyfriend has a much lower tolerance for trash, clutter and the size of the laundry pile than I do, so it's usually he, who takes the initiative to do something about it. And then we both make like a tornado and get things done.

'Sides, I've never ever before heard the out-taking of trash called a masculine chore. I mean... it's just a bag from the bin, grab, close, drop in container outside. It doesn't require any sort of strength or otherwise... that one was new to me.

Anyway, your generalizations are off-putting. You seem to read only what you want to see, whatver can enforce your chosen stereo-types/prejudices/views/whatever.

Not very... sensible.

@Renne, point taken from your comment 53. I think ...

2008-11-17T14:51:43.603-05:00

@Renne, point taken from your comment 53. I think you do a fine job with your site.

@Tony I suspect finding a woman in the first place...

2008-11-17T09:06:39.010-05:00

@Tony I suspect finding a woman in the first place is your largest issue..take a long walk off a short pier.

@Julie..I don't care how mean you think it sounded. I have repeatedly told you my position and it is not going to change. I have no use for the MRA they are racist/ classit/sexist/homophobic etc they engage in the worst isms to privilege men.

I am further irritated that every single time I post a light hearted thread you seem to feel this weird desire to throw a wrench in it. There is a clear difference on this blog between posts that are meant for critical engagement and posts that are meant for us all to relax and through off some steam.

Sunday Shame is one of my favourite things to do and look what you have turned this week's into. Well just look at it. God forbid we take the time to get to know each other and share a laugh if you have an agenda that few agree with to push.

So you girls don't like to take out the trash. If ...

2008-11-17T09:01:00.775-05:00

So you girls don't like to take out the trash. If it was me on the other side of the "but I'm a girls argument" I would let the trash pile right up to the ceiling. Then we'll play a game of lets see who has the higher tolerance for filth! I am guessing I'd win that competition.

...Tony

One girl moment is more of a prone-to-RSI moment, ...

2008-11-17T03:48:04.364-05:00

One girl moment is more of a prone-to-RSI moment, in that I have stronger folk open jars for me.

I am most likely to say "I'm being a girl" when I am being emotional in some fashion and I'm embarrassed by it. I've been trying to weed it out, but it keeps slipping out.

Renee says, ****@JulieI am far from out of my dept...

2008-11-17T03:19:49.980-05:00

Renee says,
****
@Julie
I am far from out of my depth. You simply do not agree with my opinion to which you are entitled. Sacks is a misogynist asshat and Kelly is a colluder. I simply refuse to drink your brand of kool aid but keep sipping maybe you can start a new cult. ****

That's mean. Do tell me why you won't allow a men's movement because I can't see a reason to not have one?

@Lauren..well that is what makes the whole trash t...

2008-11-17T01:59:55.081-05:00

@Lauren..well that is what makes the whole trash thing so ridiculous. I just finished cleaning the kitchen and tying up the garbage. It is going to sit there until the unhusband takes it out in the morning. He will give me his traditional eye roll and I will say but honey it was dark outside and we will share a laugh at my ridiculousness.

Yes it's silly and dumb but I figure no worse than him commenting about his super sperm. Between equals sometimes a joke can just be a joke if done with the right spirit.

@Julie
I am far from out of my depth. You simply do not agree with my opinion to which you are entitled. Sacks is a misogynist asshat and Kelly is a colluder. I simply refuse to drink your brand of kool aid but keep sipping maybe you can start a new cult.

I have men carry heavy things for me, but that's b...

2008-11-17T01:43:13.859-05:00

I have men carry heavy things for me, but that's because I have really weak arms, even putting aside the gender differential in strength. I don't want to play the girl card when I ask, but I know men wouldn't be willing to carry shit for me if I were a guy with the same meager strength I have now.

Can I just say, though, that I have NO idea what it is that makes people not want to take out the trash? My dad always made a big deal about how it was his manly burden to take out the trash. Whenever he was gone on trash nights and my sister and I had to do it, we were always surprised at how easy and painless it was after all the fuss he made about it.

@julieStepping into the "real world" shouldn't nec...

2008-11-17T01:41:59.910-05:00

@julie
Stepping into the "real world" shouldn't necessitate a loss of humor. It may involve it, but should never require it. Nor does being a realist. Reality is a rough and tumble place, full of things that don't make sense and can't always be fully appreciated on an intellectual level. So you make a joke about it.

The jokes can attack someone, which is generally frowned on by those who are trying to fix things. This is not one of those jokes. It is looking inward and acknowledging flaws, which a critical part of self improvement and working to fix the things that society has broken in you.

heh, I flip guys out... I hold the doors open for...

2008-11-17T01:27:13.341-05:00

heh, I flip guys out... I hold the doors open for them. Never did get over that habit post-transition, I just like making everyone's life easier.

I don't really get to pull the "I'm a girl" thing... Lissa looks at me and laughs. Only thing she won't really do is kill bugs/mice... everything else we do together or split.

Charles and new friend, I feel like I have stumble...

2008-11-17T01:10:44.662-05:00

Charles and new friend, I feel like I have stumbled across sensible people. I really do like that.

But without you realising ... there is another side to feminism. It is a very scary side and a very powerful side. I would love to play as a girl or ... well Charles, I cant' play as you.(smile) but life is not so complicated when you are focused with being a realist and an intellect.

I do feel horrible to pick on Renee. But Renee stepped out of her small world into the bigger world. She invited the real world, the real politics by going after Kelly Mac and Glenn Sacks.

I wasn't to know that she was well out of her depth.

Julie,I'd like to add..."But then deep down women ...

2008-11-17T00:32:58.265-05:00

Julie,

I'd like to add...

"But then deep down women don't really want equality. They just some of it and not some of it."

Deep down, everyone alive only wants some of it. Humans are literally self-centered -- we see the world from behind our own eyes. On some level, at least some of the time, we want payoff without having to to work, we want things handed to us, we want our own advantage even if at the expense of others. That's part of what it is to be human and alive. Admitting it and understanding it is part of accepting the contradictions of being human and alive.

That's what I mean when I say that the world is messy and complicated. You ask, "How do they know when opening a door is OK or when killing a bug is OK?" But real living isn't like that; it isn't figuring out what the 'moral code' is and living by it. It isn't consistent. There is no code. Really living is figuring out how to navigate the mess we find ourselves in moment by moment. Sometimes ideas and rules are helpful; but obsessing over them and expecting them to map consistently to real life, isn't.

@julieI live with my brother (he is 37, fairly lib...

2008-11-16T23:36:02.991-05:00

@julie

I live with my brother (he is 37, fairly liberal) and he knows my feminist beliefs and he allows me to play the girl card. He calls me on it sometimes, sometimes not. Just tonight he told me I am a fruit loop. We have no central heat and only one room heater. So we are all sleeping in one room and I hung sheets up in the door frames to keep the heat in somewhat. It is working, we are toasty (rest of house is cool/cold) and I am still a fruit loop. Point is that my brother has no problems with interpreting what I am willing to do and what I am not willing to do. IMO normal men will learn to understand their female friends and know which ones can kill bugs and take out trash and which ones are just too squeamish or wish to play the girl card.

I have to share this story. My dd was sitting in ...

2008-11-16T23:31:42.195-05:00

I have to share this story. My dd was sitting in our living room one night when I came home from work. Now it is me, my dd, and my brother who live here (thats it). My brother works a part time job and stays home to help with my dd since he has not been able to find work. Part time job makes him almost as much as I make working full time anyways.

So anyway, walk in sit down to check email get a dp and get comfy, dd looks up at me and says "WELL?" I say "WELL what?" she says "WHEN ARE YOU FIXING DINNER?" I said "I worked today uncle is fining dinner" she said "HE ALWAYS MAKES DINNER, YOU SURE ARE LAZY" (caps because she is loud but not yelling) So I tried explaining to her taht since uncle is home he does housework and I work on my job and she was just not getting it. So ugggh now I have to also explain to her that just because I am the female, does not mean I do dinner, dishes, and laundry.

And I got even worse "belief news" from her tonight. Gawd her dad is evil ya know? She "has to believe like he does when she is with him because they are all rednecks". YUCK!!!! Well I broke other behaviors and beliefs I will break this one.

I just have to say that he sure does want her to hate him doesn't he?

Anyways back to trash. Nope don't do it. That why for 3 of us we have 2 outside cans. But we have a different arrangement. I work, he cleans and cooks, we both work, we share, I have a day off I clean and share cooking/cleaning.

@ Renee 38 ... and Charles 40. Thanx for your comm...

2008-11-16T23:01:44.423-05:00

@ Renee 38 ... and Charles 40.

Thanx for your comments.

Julie,Those of us who don't have our heads up our ...

2008-11-16T22:18:10.811-05:00

Julie,

Those of us who don't have our heads up our asses aren't confused. And hell, to extent that anyone is, that's OK. The world is, all theory aside, a messy and complicated place. Mixed messages abound. Big whoop. Anyone who expects that any person, feminist or otherwise, will be consistent 100% of the time, is living in the clouds.

Seems like many of the responses are because someo...

2008-11-16T22:08:57.614-05:00

Seems like many of the responses are because someone is in a partnership or a relationship. I am proudly single and feel very comfortable this way. So for me I guess I don't like adhering to "feminine" tasks. But its just me and so I have no one really to compare things to. ;)

@JulieLook I appreciate that you want to express y...

2008-11-16T21:48:49.190-05:00

@Julie

Look I appreciate that you want to express yourself, but is it really necessary to take every single post that I put up for a little light hearted fun and play the heavy? Really? This post is just about laughing at the ridiculous shit that we all do. It's like being splashed with cold water. Every once and a while people need to laugh and poke at themselves and not everything I post is meant to ripped apart discursively down to the last nub.

We know we are playing the "I'm a girl card." The people that it is being played against know damn well what we are doing.

As the thorn in the side on this site ... it would...

2008-11-16T21:42:04.888-05:00

As the thorn in the side on this site ... it would be awful of me to let others down. hehehe.

Just think for a moment of what you are all saying. "I am happy to accept part of this feminist movement but I also like the girl card".

Maybe just a thought can go to the other gender who are not trying to be a feminist. Just a tincy one will do.

They are confused by this. How do they know when opening a door is OK or when killing a bug is OK? They suffer from feminists (not many of you by the looks of things) for doing manly things because to feminism it is showing Patriarchy. It is showing masculine as valued.

Do any of you see the mixed message you give by your actions? "I am feminists and I want equality", men hear. And some have been abused for being just a gentleman.

But then deep down women don't really want equality. They just some of it and not some of it.
This is screwing with someones head. IMO.

Haha, I wonder what it is about taking out the tra...

2008-11-16T21:35:04.353-05:00

Haha, I wonder what it is about taking out the trash that brings out that excse. I do the exact same thing.

I have two: driving and dealing with creditors.Let...

2008-11-16T19:40:08.896-05:00

I have two: driving and dealing with creditors.

Let me explain. I drive a semi on a local delivery run. I put in a 50 hour week, 52 weeks a year. My husband is a school-teacher. Home by 4 every day and off June and July.

If he's available to drive once I climb out of the truck, he's driving, I'm riding.

And I mostly hand creditors off with "I'm sorry, I'm a truck driver. My husband's home and handles the finances, can you talk to him?"

There are no burly men in my family, only boys, so...

2008-11-16T17:10:29.680-05:00

There are no burly men in my family, only boys, so I don't really have the chance to throw up my hands and say "You do it!". I guess the only thing my mom refuses to do is kill the enormous, hairy, hand-sized spiders that sometimes make their way into our house. If the eldest boy wants to prove his manly credentials by smashing it with a shoe, I'm not about to jump up and volunteer.

Though I did try and appeal to their masculine pride the other day, when I trudged up from one of our fields after spending an hour pulling up weeds to find a house full of able-bodied boys sitting in the dark playing Halo. I have weeny little noodle arms! I need someone with massive guns to help me out!