Comments on Womanist Musings: JC Penny's Doesn't Do "Black Hair"

Absolutely fascinating post and comments, thank yo...

2008-11-25T20:42:35.422-05:00

Absolutely fascinating post and comments, thank you all very much.

Really atrocious treatment black women are receiving, I hadn't ever thought about it quite like that before. But I can understand that training for hair stylists isn't very lengthy in most cases, and so of course they're not going to be very versatile. But still... doesn't make one feel very welcomed, now does it?

And you do realize that the very thing which makes black people's hair so freaking awesome is the very thing that patriarchy says is horrible about it? IT DEFIES GRAVITY!! How cool is that?! I'd put my hair in some rilly glamorous gravity defying shapes, if I could...

I love au natural, it is so beautiful. Sorry if I appear to have a fetish about black women's hair. :/ I consider it an atrocity to denigrate something so fabulous that not only do people overlook it's beauty, but then women themselves internalize racist beliefs about it.

Black women, you have gorgous hair. It is something to be proud of!

As a long time hairstylist I can tell you that it ...

2008-11-24T22:30:13.210-05:00

As a long time hairstylist I can tell you that it is not a requirement of beauty schools to train people in all types of hair services. The beauty schools job is to train people in the skills required by the state in order to pass the state board exam for a cosmetology license. Once a person has a cosmetology license it is up to them to learn how to do different types of hair services.
Very few hairstylists are skilled in all types of hair. A hairstylist is going to learn to be skilled at the hair services of the people who patronize the salon he or she works in. It is unrealistic to think that any salon or all stylist can perform all hair services proficiantly. If the JC Penney receptionist actually said they don't do African-American hair it was a slip of the tongue. I know they meant they did not have any stylist on duty skilled enough to tint the womans hair. I think this woman is playing the race card for a settlement from JC Penney.

As a hairstylist, this seems like sort of a catch-...

2008-11-04T08:59:50.056-05:00

As a hairstylist, this seems like sort of a catch-22 because so many of my white colleagues don't feel equipped to deal with african american hair, which is different from dealing with caucasian hair. HOWEVER, I am caucasian and have devoted time to getting good at african american hair but many african american women much prefer african american hairstylist, despite my proficiency.

I'm biracial (guessing from appearence, never met ...

2008-11-04T05:27:20.090-05:00

I'm biracial (guessing from appearence, never met my biological parents), but my hair came out on the 'whiter' side of the spectrum, I guess. It's frizzy and curly but more like Irish hair than Black hair. My white adoptive mother never had problems with it, and I've never gotten turned away from a salon in my life (mostly using the 'white' salons).

So its weird for me to read this. I never really thought about the hairstylist thing as a serious problem, when I thought about it at all. I mean, I was aware it happened, but looking at it the way its stated here makes me feel more aware. It's unsettling, frankly. It does seem wrong. I don't think it's too much to ask to have access to the services people like me take for granted, but I wonder what it would take to get people to change. I hope she wins the lawsuit.

See, this is why I just let my hair be - I'm Latin...

2008-11-03T16:36:02.250-05:00

See, this is why I just let my hair be - I'm Latina and my hair has a mind of it's own, and it's taken me 25 years to figure out that it looks best to just let it be as it is - so I let it grow long and stay curly. I used to be so self-conscious about it and as a kid I always braided it or hid it somehow, the other girls with the "friends" haircut made fun of me because my hair was... frizzy and curly and big and so on.

Now I'm realizing that I could probably do amazing beautiful things with my hair, if I knew how, or if someone who knew how did it, but I don't know anyone who does, and I hate how I look with straight hair. The other funny thing is that I've dated whites, Latinos, Europeans, middle easterners, and they all told me to cut and straighten my hair, girls with straight hair are prettier, and all that. But screw them all, I know when i look beautiful.

Having worked at a salon:1) Stylists have limited ...

2008-11-03T15:52:05.366-05:00

Having worked at a salon:

1) Stylists have limited training and are not highly paid. The salons may be making $100 customer, but stylist are still earning $8 to $14 an hour. Training can run a couple weeks to a couple months. Cursing them for not knowing everything about all hair is unreasonable.

2) Different textures of hair are different. If a stylist doesn't know how to do a type of hair, it is better to let the customer know than to butcher their hair in an attempt to be equitable. Would you feel better if the stylist said, "I've never done it before, but lets give it a wack. How hard can it be..."

3) It's frustrating to have difficulties getting adequate or convenient service. Sorry to hear about your horrible experience.
~L

I came across this link while surfing Feministing,...

2008-11-03T12:36:25.682-05:00

I came across this link while surfing Feministing, and I work for a newspaper. Coincidentally, our next issue is on race, and since my own column routinely focuses on Feminist angles to major social issues, this has really given me something to think about.

That being said, I've also had many jobs in the beauty industry (it's how I supported myself through college to earn my journalism degree) and my best friend happens to be a stylist. We worked at the same salon, she as a hairdresser and I as a sales associate. Anyway, out of the six regular hairstylists, my best friend was the only one who would do ethnic hair. Despite going to one of the best hair styling academies in the Midwest, she was not taught how to do any hair except white. None of the other girls were trained to do it either, but unlike them, my best friend was willing to try and learn. She eventually did, and most of her clients these days aren't white. That isn't to say she did it perfectly--she didn't. She got a number of complaints during her early days, many along the same line here of calling her incompetent and racist.

My point is, often the stylists themselves are not incompetent or racist, but just as victimized by the racist practices embedded in the institutions they attend to earn their license. I also spoke to an African-American friend who told me even when she attended a predominantly African-American styling academy, they did not learn about ethnic hair, and the assumption was that most of the women had practiced enough on their own family members.

In order to really start inciting change, we need to have more stylists who are willing to be like my best friend, willing to put up with the misunderstandings and the judgments and the dip in income in order to widen their experience beyond the limited, racist scope of the status quo. It's unfortunate none of the other women followed her example, both from their pocketbook perspective and more importantly from the social climate element.

arrrgh! Didn't have the proficiency to mix up some...

2008-11-03T09:58:07.726-05:00

arrrgh! Didn't have the proficiency to mix up some hair dye and put it on there? I could do that in my kitchen with no special training. How did they get their licenses? I do hope this woman wins her suit; Penney's is clearly in the wrong.

I've had it with salons for a million reasons. Being white hasn't helped me much...they butcher my hair and ignore my requests (and my photographs of desired styles). I've learned to cut and dye my own hair at home. Granted, they don't refuse me service...I just refuse them my patronage because I'm tired of looking like someone ran over my head with a weed eater.

The people who cannot see the discrimination may f...

2008-11-03T06:19:54.035-05:00

The people who cannot see the discrimination may find it easier if they imagine the case of a salon (or library for that matter) that does not provide wheelchair access.

Maybe it was the case that the salon was unable to serve Brenda McElmore. But the discrimination started long before she turned up. When they decided to set up the salon the owners should have expected that people with the full range of hair types would walk through the door. Their decision to not employ staff capable of serving Ms McElmore was really a matter of choice. And it is that decision that was discriminatory.

Which is not to say it was a choice that they knew they were making. Racism is a kind of blindness.

People have raised a number of issues above that highlight the difficulties of working in an environment that is segregated: they way it limits a person's education and experience. This too is a result of racism.

“We don't do African-American hair.” Kind of speaks for itself.

at the jcpenny in poughkeepsie, ny i had my main w...

2008-11-02T23:07:32.819-05:00

at the jcpenny in poughkeepsie, ny i had my main woman who did my hair (black. she made my hair look AMAZING!!!). but when she went on maternity leave, she set me up with her white coworker, who also made it look amazing and didn't have any problems with my hair. my white stepmother does my hair all the time when i visit. i call shenanigans on this salon.

hairstyling is an art, everybody cant do it

2008-11-02T22:14:12.633-05:00

hairstyling is an art, everybody cant do it

Sounds like a good argument against "oh don't worr...

2008-11-02T20:25:05.088-05:00

Sounds like a good argument against "oh don't worry, the free market straightens any sort of discrimination right out". If people are crossing borders to get their hair done, some salons must stand to make more money by catering to both black and white people...but still aren't doing it.

#44,A general surgeon does general surgery. A hair...

2008-11-02T15:41:42.992-05:00

#44,
A general surgeon does general surgery. A hairstylist styles hair. Non-white hair is still hair. And a neurosurgeon is a neurosurgeon, not a general surgeon. Great argument!
I as a white person never thought before about how the hair products designed for other races are displayed separately in drugstores. I guess I took it for granted. But now that it's pointed out to me, it doesn't make any sense.

Let me get this straight. A hairdresser tells you ...

2008-11-02T14:47:59.667-05:00

Let me get this straight. A hairdresser tells you that they're not able to do what you ask them to do and it's racism? To follow that logic would lead you to demand that a general surgeon perform a craniotomy. After all, he's a surgeon, that means that he's proficient at ALL surgeries, not just what he's trained for. I'm betting that you would want the Nurosurgeon, not the general surgeon. When you don't seek out the appropriate person for the job, that's not racism, it's just dumb.

Perhaps, and maybe I'm going on on a limb here, bu...

2008-11-02T14:33:56.661-05:00

Perhaps, and maybe I'm going on on a limb here, but they should teach stylists how to style all hair ethnicities, and colorists how to color all ethnicities before these beauty school geniuses get licensed. I don't think that's too much to ask. Maybe then there wouldn't be so much pressure on those with non-white hair types to make themselves look white in order to be accepted.

Is that asking too much?

Ignore the last sentence of the second paragraph; ...

2008-11-02T13:03:39.735-05:00

Ignore the last sentence of the second paragraph; that phrasing doesn't say remotely what I wanted it to.

The idea was more that it's not racist for a stylist to be afraid of fucking up, but the industry that doesn't train the stylist in such a way so that fear isn't needed is highly problematic.

Er, but black people's and white people's hair are...

2008-11-02T13:02:14.146-05:00

Er, but black people's and white people's hair are different.
It's fair enough that some hairdressers are only able to specialise in one type of hair. It depends, as others have said, on the area they trained in and the clients they practiced on. Yes ideally all hairdressers would have experience in all types of hair...and it's not like there is a black/white binary or like all black people, or all white people, have the same hair.
Maybe the way this receptionist said no was rude, but overall it's probably better to refuse than to try to do someone's hair when you have no idea what you are doing and will mess it up.
The reverse happens in many areas of London; where I live, the majority of salons are black and I'm sure they'd turn me away saying they don't do white hair.
In other, more mixed areas of London all types of hair can be catered for.
As someone said, people are people.

This is horrible, but I think it's more a problem ...

2008-11-02T12:57:43.594-05:00

This is horrible, but I think it's more a problem with this particular Penney's that JC Penney's as a corporation. I've never had any problems at the Penney's where I go.

There's also the fact that if the stylist wasn't trained on black hair - which tends to be coarse and much drier than white hair - she may have been afraid of messing up that woman's head. I'm not a stylist, but I know you have to condition hair types differently, especially if you're dying/processing hair and don't want it to come out dry and dull. Our hair *is* different. The solution isn't to cry racism, but to encourage training across racial lines.

Although why anyone would want a predominantly white, over-priced salon to overcharge them for a service they can get at the beauty shop on the corner for $20 is beyond me.

Funny you think that only Black women/girls get th...

2008-11-02T11:26:07.547-05:00

Funny you think that only Black women/girls get their heads pet. I can assure you that isn't true.

This is a question of training I think, cutting an...

2008-11-02T08:52:17.627-05:00

This is a question of training I think, cutting and styling hair is a tough job, it takes a lot of technical precision (which explains why so many hairdressers aren't that great) so it doesn't surprise me that often people are only trained to cut one type of hair. I think the problem is that people who are trained are only getting employed at certain places and that is definitely segregation. You would think these businesses would have the sense to employ people who can cut all types of hair to bring in more customers with different types of hair so yeah there's racism here.

I read this post the other day and I was amazed an...

2008-10-31T10:08:41.551-04:00

I read this post the other day and I was amazed anyone was surprised by this. I've been denied service at many, many "regular" salons because of my hair. When I straightened it, my mom had to drive for 45 minutes to a place that would do it, and only one stylist in the whole salon did perms. ONE. I couldn't get my hair trimmed anywehre closer to home, because they refused. "We can't handle that kind of hair."

When I moved to some place with more black people, the black salons would bitch at me because my hair was "too african" (coiled and strong) and was "bad" (it won't stay straightened even with tons of chemicals). When I decided to go natural, I had to switch to black barber shops because they were the only place that would cut my hair without trying to convince me I needed to chemically process it.

I went to a Vidal Sassoon salon and had them freak out about my hair. Again, only one stylist in the shop agreed to cut it, only one would color it (two colorists refused to deal with me). I was dropping well over $100 and could barely get service.

Yesterday I spent 2 hrs and went to 5 different salons and they all refused to give me a blowout. I had made an appointment at a Dominican salon, and they refused to even touch my hair unless I agreed to a $90 chemical relaxer. I was then denied at a Brazilian salon, and three other salons (all of whom advertised hair straightening services and have black clients). I wasted 2 hrs and was left utterly humiliated.

I'm devoted to my current stylist, Wendy Rapoza in Boston, because she not only knows how to style natural african hair, she loves it. She goes to black beauty shows and has spent time in black salons. She always gives me amazing cuts.

This is horrible and I hope she wins the law suit....

2008-10-31T07:24:41.848-04:00

This is horrible and I hope she wins the law suit.

My sister is very talented with hair. Her friend's daughter is mixed race [black & white] and my sister braids her hair beautifully. People will ask where she got her hair done. When my white sister is presented the black women do not want her to do their hair.

It is such a shame that people can't just be people.

AR--UR a LIAR. That there cartoon is a mashup of v...

2008-10-31T03:58:29.777-04:00

AR--

UR a LIAR. That there cartoon is a mashup of various memes, and anon does not approve.

But in reaction to your comment about "forcing" people to interact, picture this: It is my grandparents fiftieth wedding anniversary. My grandmother, glowing with joy, is treated out by grandfather to the nicest restaurant in town. But when the arrive, the head waiter will not seat them. "I'm sorry, sir," he says, "but we don't serve old cunts here."

Please to take analogy and apply to your everyday life, and reflect.

Good post again. It amazes me the discrimination t...

2008-10-31T01:16:15.125-04:00

Good post again. It amazes me the discrimination that happens in this world in such an open way and yet people take it. As black people we have to show the hair industry that we wont take this prejudice anymore.

However I believe before we can give the punch that would stop this injustice, black people have to start by stopping the self hate when it comes to our own hair. You all know what I mean.

I recently stopped living for society and their standards and went natural. I am not saying everyone should go natuaral but I am saying black people should love their hair as is. No one else will love it till we do. It all starts with us. Very proud of the lady and I hope she sends a message, this is a start.

The fact of the matter is that it's very difficult...

2008-10-30T16:29:20.723-04:00

The fact of the matter is that it's very difficult to find stylists anywhere that are proficient in all hair textures. It all depends on experience and if you work in an all black neighborhood and just work on black hair all day long, the minute a blonde, tender headed woman with fine tangled hair sits in your chair, you're going to have the same level of difficulty as someone who's never worked with highly textured hair.

Same goes for going to JCPenney for hair services. When Cosmetologists get their license, there is no guarantee that the experience they get on the beauty school floor is going to be varied enough to cover all the bases. The clients they work on while on the beauty school floor are people who go to beauty schools for cheap haircuts. Depending on the local community, they may not get enough experience in all textures. Think about it...most communities in the United States are segregated.